An article from Colorado's Gazette on Sunday makes the point that modern sizes are around half what they were 50 years ago. Marilyn Monroe is always being held up today as an inspiration for curvy women of today as a size 16, as a mark of a bygone age in which women's roundness was considered sexy. Yet according to this article, and to many other sources too, the 1950s size 16 is today's size 6-8. Which makes Marilyn pretty skinny. We have got much bigger - curves clearly weren't what they are today back in the 50s.
The article also raises the point that women are now so aware of vanity sizing and the differences between the same size between brands that they no longer expect to be any one size. The average woman may, I would guess, have clothes spanning two or three sizes in regular circulation in her wardrobe (my own wardrobe ranges from 10 at the smaller end to 14 at the larger end), plus even bigger and smaller clothes put away which she plans to wear when she gets thin, or becomes pregnant (no comment...). And I think it's fair to say we do enjoy the fact we can fit into different sizes depending on where we shop.
When sizes have become so utterly meaningless, it makes me wonder for how long we will even attempt to classify ourselves as any one size. Could shops start selling clothes as 'size 10-14' or by actual inch/cm measurements (as is suggested to standardise sizing in a current European proposal)?
I don't think women will like knowing -let alone comparing - what exactly they measure in inches, or, on the other hand, the vagueness of being a '10-14'. It seems to suit us much better psychologically to fed our vanity by saying we are the lowest size we can get into - a 10-12 for instance - and buying some garments of that size and others a size larger.
Friday, 30 May 2008
Thursday, 15 May 2008
Will the real 34DD please stand up?
So, my mother and I had a very fruitful visit to that bastion of brassieres, the famous Rigby & Peller. One wonders exactly how the Queen gets her underwear fitted there with any dignity, since the process of having your bra size measured is hardly modest, with one or two assistants literally scooping bosoms into cups.
Anyway, we were soon reassured as to the impeccable skills of this company. The fitters were professional and knew what they were talking about. There was, crucially, no pressure to buy, which of course resulted in us spending bigtime.
I was pronounced a 34DD-E for everyday bras, which seems about right, and was remeasured as a 32D for basque wedding underwear as it needs to be tighter to pull you in under the dress. I promptly repurchased my wedding undergarments (it all sounds so Victorian, but that's weddings for you) and realised how very wrong the wedding shop had been measuring me for the same underwear as a 36C - far, far too big! The visual difference made by going for a smaller size was unbelievable. It all goes to show how vital it is to be fitted for underwear by a real professional.
Anyway, we were soon reassured as to the impeccable skills of this company. The fitters were professional and knew what they were talking about. There was, crucially, no pressure to buy, which of course resulted in us spending bigtime.
I was pronounced a 34DD-E for everyday bras, which seems about right, and was remeasured as a 32D for basque wedding underwear as it needs to be tighter to pull you in under the dress. I promptly repurchased my wedding undergarments (it all sounds so Victorian, but that's weddings for you) and realised how very wrong the wedding shop had been measuring me for the same underwear as a 36C - far, far too big! The visual difference made by going for a smaller size was unbelievable. It all goes to show how vital it is to be fitted for underwear by a real professional.
Musings of a size 10
A friend, Em, has sent me the following for posting here. What she has to say on shoes I find especially interesting.
I don't worry much about sizes and have at times deliberately bought a size too big if I prefer the way it fits, so I don't think I am susceptible to vanity sizing. e.g. sometimes I prefer tops to fit loosely or skirts to sit on my hips rather than right up at my waist. My problem is mainly that clothes are the wrong shape for me - something that fits my waist might be too tight for my chest or bottom so I'll buy a bigger size and take it to Tam for her to alter it. also being tall I sometimes have to buy bigger sizes on the high street to get an extra cm or 2 in the length (sleeves, hem etc) and again, get them taken in.
Regarding the whole size zero thing, US sizing is as inconsistent as UK - I am usually a size 4 or 6 in America and somewhere around a 10 here. However, I have a pair of size 4 jeans from A&F that I got in NY last November and there is definitely some vanity sizing going on there as well - they fit snugly but I could probably have wedged myself into a 2 if I cared about sizing, and I could quite easily drop a dress size from where I am now through hardcore diet and exercise. I would then be a size 0, at least in that shop and that style of jeans, which is clearly nonsense - I'm slim but nowhere near Victoria Beckham/Nicole Ritchie territory. I think Natalie Cassidy has probably got hold of a similar freak pair of jeans!
It's interesting and slightly sad that the current obsession with sizes has eclipsed earlier ideals of a low waist to hip ratio - a social standard that was rooted in science, as low waist:hip ratio is a marker of fertility and also of low heart disease risk. Obviously this was also stressful for women who had to struggle with corsets etc but at least the fashion was in line with what is healthy and also with what men naturally find attractive.
Bras: Rigby & Peller told me I was a 30E last summer, but only had hideous mumsy-looking things in ivory lace in that size so I didn't buy any. I did feel a bit strangled in them too as they were very tight, but bras aren't meant to be soft and comfortable, as this doesn't give enough support; if you can get more than one finger inside the band when you've got it on, it isn't tight enough. They also give a little as you wear them, like jeans. I don't think they should bite into your skin though! I find that like clothes, bra sizes vary wildly from one brand to the next.
Are you looking at shoe sizing? I know many women who take pride in having relatively small feet and mention it wherever possible - seems especially to be women who aren't otherwise of small/dainty build or feel self-conscious about their weight. Interesting correlations to Chinese foot-binding etc. Generally shoe sizing is much more consistent than clothes sizing, probably because there are fewer manufacturers and it's not such a charged issue, although I have noticed that really expensive shoes e.g. Manolo Blahnik, Jimmy Choo tend to come up slightly smaller and definitely narrower than high-street shoe brands. I tried on some Jimmy Choo knee-high boots last year and couldn't zip them over my calves! which is obviously ridiculous as my calves are if anything slimmer than average - I usually have the opposite problem with boots. still, it saved me £500.
I don't worry much about sizes and have at times deliberately bought a size too big if I prefer the way it fits, so I don't think I am susceptible to vanity sizing. e.g. sometimes I prefer tops to fit loosely or skirts to sit on my hips rather than right up at my waist. My problem is mainly that clothes are the wrong shape for me - something that fits my waist might be too tight for my chest or bottom so I'll buy a bigger size and take it to Tam for her to alter it. also being tall I sometimes have to buy bigger sizes on the high street to get an extra cm or 2 in the length (sleeves, hem etc) and again, get them taken in.
Regarding the whole size zero thing, US sizing is as inconsistent as UK - I am usually a size 4 or 6 in America and somewhere around a 10 here. However, I have a pair of size 4 jeans from A&F that I got in NY last November and there is definitely some vanity sizing going on there as well - they fit snugly but I could probably have wedged myself into a 2 if I cared about sizing, and I could quite easily drop a dress size from where I am now through hardcore diet and exercise. I would then be a size 0, at least in that shop and that style of jeans, which is clearly nonsense - I'm slim but nowhere near Victoria Beckham/Nicole Ritchie territory. I think Natalie Cassidy has probably got hold of a similar freak pair of jeans!
It's interesting and slightly sad that the current obsession with sizes has eclipsed earlier ideals of a low waist to hip ratio - a social standard that was rooted in science, as low waist:hip ratio is a marker of fertility and also of low heart disease risk. Obviously this was also stressful for women who had to struggle with corsets etc but at least the fashion was in line with what is healthy and also with what men naturally find attractive.
Bras: Rigby & Peller told me I was a 30E last summer, but only had hideous mumsy-looking things in ivory lace in that size so I didn't buy any. I did feel a bit strangled in them too as they were very tight, but bras aren't meant to be soft and comfortable, as this doesn't give enough support; if you can get more than one finger inside the band when you've got it on, it isn't tight enough. They also give a little as you wear them, like jeans. I don't think they should bite into your skin though! I find that like clothes, bra sizes vary wildly from one brand to the next.
Are you looking at shoe sizing? I know many women who take pride in having relatively small feet and mention it wherever possible - seems especially to be women who aren't otherwise of small/dainty build or feel self-conscious about their weight. Interesting correlations to Chinese foot-binding etc. Generally shoe sizing is much more consistent than clothes sizing, probably because there are fewer manufacturers and it's not such a charged issue, although I have noticed that really expensive shoes e.g. Manolo Blahnik, Jimmy Choo tend to come up slightly smaller and definitely narrower than high-street shoe brands. I tried on some Jimmy Choo knee-high boots last year and couldn't zip them over my calves! which is obviously ridiculous as my calves are if anything slimmer than average - I usually have the opposite problem with boots. still, it saved me £500.
Monday, 5 May 2008
Bra sizes: is it all meaningless?
I'm 29 and yet I have no idea what bra size I am. A couple of years ago I thought I knew, and since then, according to what I've been told by 'professionals', I've seen myself as everything from glamour-girl buxom to on the small side. And I doubt I'm alone.
Let me explain. For most of my 20s I thought I was a 36, even a 38, B to C. Then, last year, I got measured at Selfridges and was pronounced, to my infinite surprise and delight, a 34D. 'Oh, I must buy some bras in my new size and throw the old ones away' was my first thought. Cue credit card and £100 spent, over the next couple of months, on new bras.
A few months ago a PR invited me to get fitted at Bravissimo, which specialises in bras for 'big-boobed women' and my RSVP essentially read 'Thank you but I am sure I don't qualify.' She advised me to go despite my concerns, and lo and behold the fitter laughed her head off at my 34D bra and told me I was a 32E. She told me a 34D would just not support me and the fear in my mind was of prematurely sagging bosoms in my early 30s. Maybe, at a pinch, I could also be a 34DD, she said. But 32E was 'the size' for me.
Feeling like I'd turned into Pammy Anderson within seconds, the first thing on my to-do list was to make sure I had some bras in the 'right' size. Otherwise, I would have no support! I bought more than £50 of underwear in the moments that followed alone.
And my new 32E bra looked gorgeous on. It lifted me perfectly. The problem only emerged when I tried to wear the bra for more than ten minutes. It rubbed seriously, the bones of the underwire digging in so much they left me with dark wed welts. Obedient to the fitting, I forced myself to wear the bra even though I had to go somewhere private and pull it away from my chest to relieve the welts every hour. I even sewed little cushions I made from stuffing and an old handkerchief into the bra to stop it feeling so unbearably tight, but nothing worked and after a few days I simply gave up and went back to my 34Ds and DDs.
My mother, who also had a fitting at Bravissimo, had exactly the same experience of being told she was a smaller back size and bigger cup than she had ever thought possible, buying a pretty bra, and finding it is far too uncomfortable to wear.
Then, just this week, another fitting (this time for wedding underwear - ye gods) resulted in being told I am a 36C and that a DD would be gaping on me.
All of this has left me not knowing what size I am. Obviously all bras are made differently, and all shops measure differently, but surely there should be one or two standard sizes we can assume will fit us? My mother, more cynical than me, suspects lingerie shops deliberately ask us what size we wear and then tell us we are a different size (usually flattering us but making us sound slimmer in the back and bigger in the cup) in order to make us buy new bras. I'm not sure it's that premeditated, but perhaps I'm just naive.
The only question left to answer is why do I want to know what bra size I am? Is my need to fit into a category resolving some kind of insecurity, or boosting (literally) my self-esteem? When I was told I was a 32E I felt flattered and I can't deny my body image improved. The other day when I was slapped back down to a 36C I felt like I'd just been kidding myself believing I could be any bigger than that. It's quite sad how a size can determine one's emotions.
But there is a practical need to know what bra size you are and that is when it comes to every woman's requirement to be able to shop for a bra and have an idea of what sizes to try on - otherwise a trip to M&S could take forever. My question to the sizing experts is, what are we meant to do? Who do we trust? Do we wear what is comfortable, or do we wear what is supposedly supportive?
To this end, I have made an appointment today with the Queen's corsetieres, Rigby & Peller. I understand if there is one higher authority on bra sizing, they are it. Watch this space.
Let me explain. For most of my 20s I thought I was a 36, even a 38, B to C. Then, last year, I got measured at Selfridges and was pronounced, to my infinite surprise and delight, a 34D. 'Oh, I must buy some bras in my new size and throw the old ones away' was my first thought. Cue credit card and £100 spent, over the next couple of months, on new bras.
A few months ago a PR invited me to get fitted at Bravissimo, which specialises in bras for 'big-boobed women' and my RSVP essentially read 'Thank you but I am sure I don't qualify.' She advised me to go despite my concerns, and lo and behold the fitter laughed her head off at my 34D bra and told me I was a 32E. She told me a 34D would just not support me and the fear in my mind was of prematurely sagging bosoms in my early 30s. Maybe, at a pinch, I could also be a 34DD, she said. But 32E was 'the size' for me.
Feeling like I'd turned into Pammy Anderson within seconds, the first thing on my to-do list was to make sure I had some bras in the 'right' size. Otherwise, I would have no support! I bought more than £50 of underwear in the moments that followed alone.
And my new 32E bra looked gorgeous on. It lifted me perfectly. The problem only emerged when I tried to wear the bra for more than ten minutes. It rubbed seriously, the bones of the underwire digging in so much they left me with dark wed welts. Obedient to the fitting, I forced myself to wear the bra even though I had to go somewhere private and pull it away from my chest to relieve the welts every hour. I even sewed little cushions I made from stuffing and an old handkerchief into the bra to stop it feeling so unbearably tight, but nothing worked and after a few days I simply gave up and went back to my 34Ds and DDs.
My mother, who also had a fitting at Bravissimo, had exactly the same experience of being told she was a smaller back size and bigger cup than she had ever thought possible, buying a pretty bra, and finding it is far too uncomfortable to wear.
Then, just this week, another fitting (this time for wedding underwear - ye gods) resulted in being told I am a 36C and that a DD would be gaping on me.
All of this has left me not knowing what size I am. Obviously all bras are made differently, and all shops measure differently, but surely there should be one or two standard sizes we can assume will fit us? My mother, more cynical than me, suspects lingerie shops deliberately ask us what size we wear and then tell us we are a different size (usually flattering us but making us sound slimmer in the back and bigger in the cup) in order to make us buy new bras. I'm not sure it's that premeditated, but perhaps I'm just naive.
The only question left to answer is why do I want to know what bra size I am? Is my need to fit into a category resolving some kind of insecurity, or boosting (literally) my self-esteem? When I was told I was a 32E I felt flattered and I can't deny my body image improved. The other day when I was slapped back down to a 36C I felt like I'd just been kidding myself believing I could be any bigger than that. It's quite sad how a size can determine one's emotions.
But there is a practical need to know what bra size you are and that is when it comes to every woman's requirement to be able to shop for a bra and have an idea of what sizes to try on - otherwise a trip to M&S could take forever. My question to the sizing experts is, what are we meant to do? Who do we trust? Do we wear what is comfortable, or do we wear what is supposedly supportive?
To this end, I have made an appointment today with the Queen's corsetieres, Rigby & Peller. I understand if there is one higher authority on bra sizing, they are it. Watch this space.
A post from journalist Eileen McCabe
Seasoned journalist Eileen McCabe, who is currently writing a book about Tony Blair, is kind enough to let me post these comments she has just sent me. She raises some fascinating points about differences in size around the world (what Western woman isn't slightly afraid of what size she turns out to be in a Japanese or even French clothes shop?)and questions how fashion houses figure out figures.
Sizing comes within the same category as 5-a-day, 14 u of alcohol per week, no cigs, daily exercise, no red meat and lots of oily fish. They're all designed ot make us feel mega-guilty about our lifestyles and to what end? If you could measure the angst about what we eat and drink, going from size 10 to 12, what we do or don't do, there would be a mountain of goo-ey stress and nervous tension that debilitates and does much more harm to the body than not quite making the 5 or the devastating health risks of last night's grilled steak.
I can only remember one grandmother...I was eight when she died. I remember her face and beautiful thick white hair but I have no idea whether she was a size 8 or a size 20. She seemed to be wrapped in voluminous skirts and petticoats, and a shawl...who was to know or care? And she smoked a clay pipe and still managed to live to 84... I don't think she lost much sleep about her size.
Why do fashion houses do it? Why make the customer feel guilty and unwanted? Wander into Zara and I have to search for XL. Why be humiliated? thing is the clothes are lovely and v good value as long as you're a skinny minnie. it must be part of their marketing strategy that says we cater for the young and trendy who go for disposable clothes...and young and trendy people tend to be size 4/6/8...and if they're not, they should be. I know that I'm not as slim as I used to be but I hardly feel ready to be labelled XL.
However when we were in China a couple of years ago, I struggled to find anything to fit and because everything was so cheap, the search became serious. Finally I bought a stone coloured silk trouser suit ( for about a fiver) that is labelled XXXL....Now I forgave sizing there because it seemed to me that so many Chinese women are stick-thin... but the same can't be said in Europe or US.
Then how do you deal with yo-yo sizing? Lots of women can go up and down a full size in the course of a month. The marketing people say layering is the answer...the silky sloppy blouses and the chiffon smocks. It's good for business but a. not v flattering and b. unnecessary.
So here is one very simplistic solution:
Do away with sizing as we know it and have three basic sizes, small, medium and large (plus short, regular and long).
They would be determined by weight, not some fictional size8/10/12etc..
small: 7-9st
medium: 9st-11st
large: 11st and above.
If fashion houses standardised, then I would always know to go for a M(short). If I was at the lower end of 9-11, then I could probably afford to wear something slightly fitted... at the upper end, clothes that don't cling with a nice belt around the middle to give it some shape....but at least M(short) sets the parameters.
And I wouldn't feel guilty about slipping into the next size because there's room to manoeuvre within it (literally!)
It's a great project...and I would love to know what the fashion houses have to say about how their sizing policy is determined, something like : When God created Man, He created him to look as we dictate he should look.
Sizing comes within the same category as 5-a-day, 14 u of alcohol per week, no cigs, daily exercise, no red meat and lots of oily fish. They're all designed ot make us feel mega-guilty about our lifestyles and to what end? If you could measure the angst about what we eat and drink, going from size 10 to 12, what we do or don't do, there would be a mountain of goo-ey stress and nervous tension that debilitates and does much more harm to the body than not quite making the 5 or the devastating health risks of last night's grilled steak.
I can only remember one grandmother...I was eight when she died. I remember her face and beautiful thick white hair but I have no idea whether she was a size 8 or a size 20. She seemed to be wrapped in voluminous skirts and petticoats, and a shawl...who was to know or care? And she smoked a clay pipe and still managed to live to 84... I don't think she lost much sleep about her size.
Why do fashion houses do it? Why make the customer feel guilty and unwanted? Wander into Zara and I have to search for XL. Why be humiliated? thing is the clothes are lovely and v good value as long as you're a skinny minnie. it must be part of their marketing strategy that says we cater for the young and trendy who go for disposable clothes...and young and trendy people tend to be size 4/6/8...and if they're not, they should be. I know that I'm not as slim as I used to be but I hardly feel ready to be labelled XL.
However when we were in China a couple of years ago, I struggled to find anything to fit and because everything was so cheap, the search became serious. Finally I bought a stone coloured silk trouser suit ( for about a fiver) that is labelled XXXL....Now I forgave sizing there because it seemed to me that so many Chinese women are stick-thin... but the same can't be said in Europe or US.
Then how do you deal with yo-yo sizing? Lots of women can go up and down a full size in the course of a month. The marketing people say layering is the answer...the silky sloppy blouses and the chiffon smocks. It's good for business but a. not v flattering and b. unnecessary.
So here is one very simplistic solution:
Do away with sizing as we know it and have three basic sizes, small, medium and large (plus short, regular and long).
They would be determined by weight, not some fictional size8/10/12etc..
small: 7-9st
medium: 9st-11st
large: 11st and above.
If fashion houses standardised, then I would always know to go for a M(short). If I was at the lower end of 9-11, then I could probably afford to wear something slightly fitted... at the upper end, clothes that don't cling with a nice belt around the middle to give it some shape....but at least M(short) sets the parameters.
And I wouldn't feel guilty about slipping into the next size because there's room to manoeuvre within it (literally!)
It's a great project...and I would love to know what the fashion houses have to say about how their sizing policy is determined, something like : When God created Man, He created him to look as we dictate he should look.
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